Slant Front Desks Without Breadboard Ends

[Ford Fitzkee]

Has anyone seen examples of period slant front desks that do not have breadboard ends on the lid?  It seems as though the breadboard ends induce more problems than they solve due to expansion and contraction of the lid with no movement of the breadboards in length. Are they really necessary at all?  I am assuming they were added to prevent the lid from cupping, but there are plenty of examples of wide boards without support across their width that typically do not have breadboard ends such as the leaves of drop leaf tables.  From what I can tell, many of these drop leaf tables have survived without any appreciable cupping or warping of the leaves.  Were they possibly a purely cosmetic detail? 

Sincerely,
Ford   

 

[Jeff L Headley]

Ford, I see where you are coming from. Yes there are desk lids without battens. They will be found on less formal pieces. Wood moves! Period shops, just as today, would not want a message delivered by horse back or other means about wood movement after selling a piece. This is not good for business thus battens. Table leaves are another matter by their width 15" with a desk batten is easier to hold in place than 18+". Earlier farm tables with battens will have proven to have split and checked with battens. Desks were a show of opulence. The best construction (just as today) was what period client's wanted. If I would sell you a desk with a fall board that had no battens and your desk lid would warp ( with given time it will) then who would you call? You would contact me?

 

[msiemsen]

A large part of the problem we see with wood movement today is caused by that fact that we build period reproductions that are not used in period conditions. With central air and heat we tend to dry wood out more than used to be the case. Our expectations are different as well because we live in a more sanitized world, where wood is expected to behave like synthetic materials and dead bodies don't stink.
The example of table leaves doesn't work too well because table leaves are open to the same conditions on both sides of the leaf where a desk lid is sealed from the outside air on one side. 
Wood moves, get used to it! and plan accordingly.

 

[albreed]

Ford- The advantage is to minimize warpage, which works most of the time. The disadvantage is that the main lid board will shrink away from the breadboards and often rip out the hinges in the process....., Leave some space between the breadboard and the writing surface to allow for this or fasten the breadboard fast at the hinge and allow the float at the top-Al

 

[albreed]

Forgot to mention to use quartered stock if possible to reduce movement-Al

 

[Ford Fitzkee]

  Thanks for the responses.  I had not thought of the uneven exposure to the outside air due to the desk lid being closed the majority of the time.  That differential exposure could certainly lead to some issues and the tolerances for a good fit of the lid are fairly tight.  I guess I figured that bypassing the battens could be a simpler and cleaner solution, but as usual the period makers had very good reasons for doing what they did.  A desk lid that has warped and does not seat properly in its recess is a much bigger problem than a little shrinkage of the main board from the battens.  How much space would you recommend to leave between the breadboard and the writing surface?  1/16"?
  Also, do the majority of the period pieces just use a tongue and groove joint without allowing any portion to float or did they use tenons to control the movement (i.e. gluing one tenon and allowing the other to move)?  I know this may be difficult to answer with certainty and construction methods varied greatly but I'm curious what other have seen on the originals.  Thanks!

-Ford