Handsaw for cutting veneer

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ttalma

Well-known member
I am looking into getting a handsaw for the specific purpose of cutting veneers. I was wondering what I should be looking for. Specifically size, and and tooth set, sharpening, etc.

I will be mostly cutting veneers on my bandsaw, but the resaw is limited to 12", so this will be for larger veneers.
 
As you are probably aware, hand sawing veneer out of material wider than 12 inches is a pretty tall order. In fact, it's something I've never done. But, I have hand sawn veneer out of narrower stock, and have a few thoughts which may, or may not, be of any help.

If you are contemplating a one-time episode, then you MAY be able to get by with a "full" rip saw. I.e., a 28 to 30 inch hand saw, possibly with 3 1/2 to 5 ppi. Filed for rip cuts - more on this in a moment.

If, on the other hand, you anticipate occasional episodes of this activity, then you may want to consider something closer to the traditional frame saws ("veneer saws") which sawyers used for this type of work. Illustrations of these are found in Roubo, Diderot, Felibien, etc., and they are two-person saws in which a relatively wide web is fixed down the center of the frame. The web is rigidly held by stirrups at either end, and "strain" is put on the web by a screw mechanism or folding wedges.

According to Holtzapffel, in the mid-nineteenth century, veneer saw webs were available in lengths from 4 to 5 feet, and widths of 4 to 5 inches. Also, the webs were .032" to .042" thick, with 2 to 4 points per inch. Of course, these are for two-person saws, so the values would need to be scaled down a bit for a one-person example. But, for material over 12 inches wide, a two-person saw is probably preferable.

I'm not aware that such blades/webs are currently available, so if you were to decide to pursue this option, you would probably wind-up buying a length of spring steel of the proper width and gage, and creating the teeth for yourself.

As to the shape of the teeth, you will want them to be as aggressive as possible without requiring too much effort per stroke.  It may be possible that a frame saw will allow for a more aggressive tooth shape than for a hand saw, but it might be safer to start with a tooth configuration known to be effective for regular rip saws. Charles L. Johnson, in his _Saw Dictionary_, recommends a rake/pitch of 87 degrees (i.e, the face of the tooth leans handle-ward three degrees from vertical) and a bevel angle of two degrees for "Fast Heavy Ripping." I would think this would be a pretty safe starting place.

I know there will be controversy about this, but my preference for heavy ripping is to keep the set fairly minimal. This seems counter-intuitive, but the resulting thinner kerf not only requires less effort to achieve, but wider kerfs (and narrower webs/blades) actually add to the task of guiding/correcting the cuts. People who advocate more set to allow for corrections typically then go on to describe methods of achieving these corrections which have little/nothing to do with the width of the kerf. As Holtzapffel describes elsewhere, most tools have some kind of guiding principle in their operation, and this holds true for saws as well.

Finally, even though this contradicts something I recently wrote in another thread ["A foolish consistency is the hob-goblin of little minds."  :-) ], if you anticipate doing much sawing out of veneer in materials wider than 12 inches, you may want to consider a riser block for your bandsaw, or another bandsaw of greater capacity.

I'd be most interested in your experience, though, if you decide to undertake this by hand!

Don McConnell
Eureka Springs, AR
 
Hi Tim,

I have sawn out veneers wider than 12" and have resawn 12" material (sometimes just for fun).  I've also used the saw that Don describes and I can say it was a hoot.  I loved it so much, I'm making my own.  If you want one, let me know and I'll make you one too.  You can use these things yourself. 

Don was right on in my experience with everything he said.  You can do a lot with a good course hand saw.  The problem i tended to encounter seemed to be clogging in the kerf.  Sawing vertically seems to help, but its darn inconvenient in my shop (but then again, being somewhat of a FREAK not unlike yourself, I have some difficulty standing erect in my shop so...)  You're a guy who needs 28" hand saws.

Ditto, I agree with Don about the set issue.  I wedge my kerfs open.  This seems a better solution.

Adam 
 
Don, Thanks for the info. If I'm picturing the saw correctly it's one they have hanging on the wall at CW in the hayes shop. But I must admit I didn't know it's purpose, it kind of clicked when you described it.

Adam, Thanks for the generous offer. If you don't mind making a second I'll take you up on your offer. Even plans or pictures of it's construction would be great! My new shop has 8'4" ceilings so hopefully I'll be able to do most jobs in there. If not I've got a big back yard so as soon as it warms up I can do some work outside. I'll send you and email offline.
 
Tim - If you're not already aquainted with the specifics of fleam, rake, set, etc.., there's an excellent primer on filing saw teeth on the vintage saws site:

http://www.vintagesaws.com/library/primer/sharp.html

While the assumption in the article is that you're setting out to sharpen existing (dull) saw teeth, you could easily use the techniques presented to shape a new set of teeth on a length of spring steel with the addition of a homemade filing guide.  I'm not sure, but I think this article was written by Wenzloff.
 
Ah...not the work of me but rather Pete Taran--it's his web site as well. Wonderful resource!

Pete Taran along with Patrick Leach of the infamous Supertool web site (all things Stanley planes) started Independence Tool, which brought upon us all the resurgence of quality hand saws (DT and carcass).

IT's history was recently spotlighted on Chris Schwarz's blog:
http://www.woodworking-magazine.com/blog/Premium+Backsaws+A+History+Lesson.aspx

Take care, Mike
back to work...
 
chamfer said:
According to Holtzapffel, in the mid-nineteenth century, veneer saw webs were available in lengths from 4 to 5 feet, and widths of 4 to 5 inches. Also, the webs were .032" to .042" thick, with 2 to 4 points per inch. Of course, these are for two-person saws, so the values would need to be scaled down a bit for a one-person example. But, for material over 12 inches wide, a two-person saw is probably preferable.

I'm not aware that such blades/webs are currently available, so if you were to decide to pursue this option, you would probably wind-up buying a length of spring steel of the proper width and gage, and creating the teeth for yourself.



Don McConnell
Eureka Springs, AR


I've gone the route of filing teeth into a length of 2" wide spring steel, and I can't say it is worth it.  I had more success with a length of 1/2" bandsaw blade cut to size.  My experience is that a narrow blade (web) is a great asset.  You can resaw with a standard ripsaw, but it is more effort and more waste.

There is a minor learning curve to using one of the frame resaws.  But once you get the knack of it they are actually fun to use.  I find I can beat my puny bandsaw at resawing wide boards.  You have to love a story where man beats machine.

Regards,
Steve
 
If you did decide to use the spring steel find a saw sharpener with a toother. It will bang out the teeth you want at the pitch and rake you want in about 30 seconds. Then you can go home and set and file if you want or have the sharpener do it for you.
Mike
 
You can easily increase the cutting height of your band saw.  This is what I did.  If the upper and lower sections are bolted together at the throat unbolt them and insert a block of maple, say 3x3xany length. The metal shaft that the guide rides on will have to be replaced with a longer one (I turned a shaft of hickory).  Calculate a new blade length or simply buy a longer blade and calculate the height of maple block needed.  Now you can resaw any width of board you want.  I did this to my band saw 25 years ago and it works great for me.

Dennis Bork
Antiquity Period Designs, Ltd.
 
Thanks for all the great replies. I did some research on the saws this weekend and they look really neat. I am looking forward to trying one. I skimed over the saw filing article and will have to read it more in depth.

I have an old dissten saw blade that's in good shape, but needs a handle and to be resharpened. I just haven't gotten around to it yet.

I like the idea of sending out the spring steel to be sharpened into a blade, I also have some 3/4" and 1/2" blades for my bandsaw.

Unfortunetly I can't make a riser block for my bandsaw. It's a Jet 20" model, and the neck is 2 pieces of 1/4" thick tube steel welded together, so I'm not taking that apart! It's a great saw, and the 12" resaw has rarely been a problem.
 

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