Jeff L Headley
Well-known member
How would you consrtuct a period drawer from your area?
Drawer Construction
- Thread starter Jeff L Headley
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Jeff L Headley
Well-known member
Jack Plane
Well-known member
Which period? Construction varies considerably through the centuries.
Adam Cherubini
Well-known member
How old is that drawer, Jeff?
Certainly that sort of construction is the sort I have seen from the 19th c and it usually accompanies a lot of construction practices I feel are naive or certainly not as sophisticated as those immediately proceeding it.
Philadelphia and London drawer bottoms are very typically nailed on. Drawer "slips" (if that's the right word) were glued to the bottom to cover the nail heads and provide a wider wear surface. Grain orientation of the bottoms was typically front to back. The secondary woods were typically riven white cedar (which is both a dimensionally stable cut and a dimensionally stable species, a fact often missed by critics of this construction). I've seen many many of these intact. Tho a crack in a bottom probably wouldn't have been a big deal. Drawer bottoms were often lined with paper to protect costly textiles from the wood. I believe Philadelphia craftsmen were using roof shingles for drawer parts or were using material used for roof shingles.
Oak used for drawer parts was known in Philadelphia and is typical of English pieces. In my experience, the construction described above is fairly typical of English pieces throughout the latter 3 quarters of the 18th c and well into the 19th c, though grain orientation of the bottoms varies. I've also seen sawn bottoms. In my opinion, I think many of us neglect the high and near constant humidity of Britain and it's effect on construction (and tools). Though I have no personal experience with it, I'm pretty sure English weather is a lot milder than ours. Maybe Seattle has similar weather.
R.I. drawers are similar to Philadelphia's in general and Providence furniture can be identified by this construction specifically. Goddard nailed on bottoms, but tapered the edges then applied tapered slips. I was never sure why they did this. It conserves a small portion of interior drawer volume. Goddard also segmented at least some drawers' slips. It would stand to reason that he might do this to attempt to conserve the slips when the drawer bottoms ran side to side. But if I'm not mistaken, I think I saw the segmented slips on drawer bottoms that ran front to back.
Boston pieces I've seen (admittedly few) had wide sawn pine secondary wood and drawer bottoms that ran side to side. There's a Bombe chest in Philly like that. I think this construction harkens back to 17th c construction. I've long suspected Boston was a little behind on construction techniques. Immigration certainly didn't keep up with Philadelphia and I suspect that many Boston cabinetmakers working in the latter half of the century were (first or second generation Americans) i.e. apprenticed to Americans. I think most of Philadelphia's best known cabinetmakers all served their apprenticeships in London, so Philly was keeping pace with London, at least until the war.
Adam
Certainly that sort of construction is the sort I have seen from the 19th c and it usually accompanies a lot of construction practices I feel are naive or certainly not as sophisticated as those immediately proceeding it.
Philadelphia and London drawer bottoms are very typically nailed on. Drawer "slips" (if that's the right word) were glued to the bottom to cover the nail heads and provide a wider wear surface. Grain orientation of the bottoms was typically front to back. The secondary woods were typically riven white cedar (which is both a dimensionally stable cut and a dimensionally stable species, a fact often missed by critics of this construction). I've seen many many of these intact. Tho a crack in a bottom probably wouldn't have been a big deal. Drawer bottoms were often lined with paper to protect costly textiles from the wood. I believe Philadelphia craftsmen were using roof shingles for drawer parts or were using material used for roof shingles.
Oak used for drawer parts was known in Philadelphia and is typical of English pieces. In my experience, the construction described above is fairly typical of English pieces throughout the latter 3 quarters of the 18th c and well into the 19th c, though grain orientation of the bottoms varies. I've also seen sawn bottoms. In my opinion, I think many of us neglect the high and near constant humidity of Britain and it's effect on construction (and tools). Though I have no personal experience with it, I'm pretty sure English weather is a lot milder than ours. Maybe Seattle has similar weather.
R.I. drawers are similar to Philadelphia's in general and Providence furniture can be identified by this construction specifically. Goddard nailed on bottoms, but tapered the edges then applied tapered slips. I was never sure why they did this. It conserves a small portion of interior drawer volume. Goddard also segmented at least some drawers' slips. It would stand to reason that he might do this to attempt to conserve the slips when the drawer bottoms ran side to side. But if I'm not mistaken, I think I saw the segmented slips on drawer bottoms that ran front to back.
Boston pieces I've seen (admittedly few) had wide sawn pine secondary wood and drawer bottoms that ran side to side. There's a Bombe chest in Philly like that. I think this construction harkens back to 17th c construction. I've long suspected Boston was a little behind on construction techniques. Immigration certainly didn't keep up with Philadelphia and I suspect that many Boston cabinetmakers working in the latter half of the century were (first or second generation Americans) i.e. apprenticed to Americans. I think most of Philadelphia's best known cabinetmakers all served their apprenticeships in London, so Philly was keeping pace with London, at least until the war.
Adam
jacon4
Well-known member
How old is that drawer, Jeff?
Guesses June 1, 1810 @ 3 P.M., EST, lol. Although i dont build drawers, Jeff's Hepplewhite bow front chest is interesting because of that blocking on drawer bottom, ditto the bands of walnut & poplar on drawer front substrate.
I would say generally speaking, most american 18th/ early 19th century drawer construction consisted of grooves plowed into drawer sides/ back of drawer front into which a beveled bottom slid into with nails on back.
Guesses June 1, 1810 @ 3 P.M., EST, lol. Although i dont build drawers, Jeff's Hepplewhite bow front chest is interesting because of that blocking on drawer bottom, ditto the bands of walnut & poplar on drawer front substrate.
I would say generally speaking, most american 18th/ early 19th century drawer construction consisted of grooves plowed into drawer sides/ back of drawer front into which a beveled bottom slid into with nails on back.
Adam Cherubini
Well-known member
"I would say generally speaking, most american 18th/ early 19th century drawer construction consisted of grooves plowed into drawer sides/ back of drawer front into which a beveled bottom slid into with nails on back."
Do you have any examples of 18th c furniture built this way? I've never seen this. It may have been done in regions I'm not familiar with. I have heard many people talk about this construction. But I've not personally seen it.
Adam
Do you have any examples of 18th c furniture built this way? I've never seen this. It may have been done in regions I'm not familiar with. I have heard many people talk about this construction. But I've not personally seen it.
Adam
This construction he mentions Adam is quite common in early 19th century work in Western PA and Ohio. Would not call it a regional thing as much of the furniture tradition in Ohio is from artisans who migrated from New England. I would assume they brought this method of construction from there.
George Walekr
George Walekr
jacon4
Well-known member
Hey Adam,
Well, lets see now, from my personal collection of 18th century stuff, Conn tavern table, NH queen anne high boy base, boston drop leaf table, several other pieces (chest of drawers, maple tavern table) i have no clue where they were built, all have this type drawer construction. The only 18th century piece that i have that does not have this type of construction is a virginia paint decorated blanket/dower chest where the drawer bottoms are nailed on with forged T headed nails. A half dozen or so early 19th century pieces (hepplewhite &sheraton) from both north and south all have this drawer construction. I do not have any philly pieces that i know of so i dont know how they built them there. I'll say this, as a long time auction, show goer, the first thing i do when examining a piece is pull out the drawer for a thorough look see and if the secondary wood is oak, i cant get the drawer closed fast enough because i always assumed it was english. After Jeff's post about that tall chest from PA with riven oak drawer construction, i wont be so quick to close that drawer in future.
Well, lets see now, from my personal collection of 18th century stuff, Conn tavern table, NH queen anne high boy base, boston drop leaf table, several other pieces (chest of drawers, maple tavern table) i have no clue where they were built, all have this type drawer construction. The only 18th century piece that i have that does not have this type of construction is a virginia paint decorated blanket/dower chest where the drawer bottoms are nailed on with forged T headed nails. A half dozen or so early 19th century pieces (hepplewhite &sheraton) from both north and south all have this drawer construction. I do not have any philly pieces that i know of so i dont know how they built them there. I'll say this, as a long time auction, show goer, the first thing i do when examining a piece is pull out the drawer for a thorough look see and if the secondary wood is oak, i cant get the drawer closed fast enough because i always assumed it was english. After Jeff's post about that tall chest from PA with riven oak drawer construction, i wont be so quick to close that drawer in future.
Adam Cherubini
Well-known member
Any chance you could shoot us some pictures?
jacon4
Well-known member
Sure, i am a little hung over from travel but will get out the cam this weekend and try a few pics. I have no clue why this type of drawer construction is so prevalent in american furniture. Just like wedged dovetails, i know its germanic construction but again, i dont know why they did dovetails that way.
jacon4
Well-known member
In a couple hours, this table is going on the auction block and although 1/3 of it's legs are missing (hey, it can be restored!) everything else appears to be there. Notice the drawer construction which is fairly typical of 17th century american, the single plowed groove on the outside of the drawer sides followed by a strip of wood (usually nailed) attached to inside of case for drawer to ride on.
Why furniture makers went from this to the grooves on the inside of drawers with a beveled bottom slid into that groove i really dont know but one possible reason that immediately comes to mind is iron nails. Although iron may/ may not have been a big deal in boston, philly, charleston or other major urban centers, i suspect it was everywhere else. With the bevel bottom system, you only need one or two nails at drawer back to hold bottom in place. Naturally, this is entirely speculation on my part but hey, thats one of the joys of being a collector, I get to speculate like a madman about matters i know very little about, lol.
http://www.liveauctioneers.com/item/8571092
Why furniture makers went from this to the grooves on the inside of drawers with a beveled bottom slid into that groove i really dont know but one possible reason that immediately comes to mind is iron nails. Although iron may/ may not have been a big deal in boston, philly, charleston or other major urban centers, i suspect it was everywhere else. With the bevel bottom system, you only need one or two nails at drawer back to hold bottom in place. Naturally, this is entirely speculation on my part but hey, thats one of the joys of being a collector, I get to speculate like a madman about matters i know very little about, lol.
http://www.liveauctioneers.com/item/8571092
jacon4
Well-known member
Hey Adam,
I am charging up my cam battery now, will attempt some pics later today. I have a cannon power shot SD1000 and i told the guy at Wolf's cam store i am lame when it comes to photography and i needed a "point & shoot" type cam, this is NOT a point & shoot type dealio as i am also reading the instructions on how to get up close shots.
In the meantime, while scanning thru Brunk's catalog this morning, they have a sale comming up with alot of furniture Deaccessioned from MESDA ( i have my eye on a charleston piece with bald cypress secondary) and among them is a mid 18th century QA dressing table attributed to williamsburg VA. It had a pic of drawer bottoms that hopefully is below. I dont know why but this type of drawer construction dominated in america during the 18th & early 19th century and it doesnt seem to matter if the piece is built in boston, new york or virginia.
I am charging up my cam battery now, will attempt some pics later today. I have a cannon power shot SD1000 and i told the guy at Wolf's cam store i am lame when it comes to photography and i needed a "point & shoot" type cam, this is NOT a point & shoot type dealio as i am also reading the instructions on how to get up close shots.
In the meantime, while scanning thru Brunk's catalog this morning, they have a sale comming up with alot of furniture Deaccessioned from MESDA ( i have my eye on a charleston piece with bald cypress secondary) and among them is a mid 18th century QA dressing table attributed to williamsburg VA. It had a pic of drawer bottoms that hopefully is below. I dont know why but this type of drawer construction dominated in america during the 18th & early 19th century and it doesnt seem to matter if the piece is built in boston, new york or virginia.
Attachments
jacon4
Well-known member
OK, this was alot tougher than i thought, add in resizing for forum format and I am in way over my head, pic wise. With that said, rather than take pics of the backs of drawers, i tried to shoot down the runner so one can see better whats up with this construction. Basically, this type of construction is very similar to a raised panel door only ALOT more rough and much thinner.
The bevel
The bevel
Attachments
Adam Cherubini
Well-known member
Al,
Not so for Philly or London and I presume the difference is something about the availability of wide pine or other similar wood for secondary AND the thickness of the drawer sides. Philly and London sides are often not more than 3/8" I was looking at a drawer last week whose bottom edge was rabbeted to let in the bottom. The material remaining was tiny, maybe less than 1/10".
Additionally, the wide strips applied probably DID maintain the runners which would be especially helpful for flush fitting Georgian drawers. Those strips are often 1" or so, which is significant.
I don't see a lot of NE furniture (or Southern furniture for that matter). So this has been helpful.
Lastly, I've been seeing some "country" English furniture (we import a fair bit of that) where they used Oak as the primary material where Americans used Mahogany. This seemed to be limited to what the British call George III, and Wmsburg calls Southern Chippendale/Plain and Neat. Worth considering as the price of mahog climbs.
Adam
Not so for Philly or London and I presume the difference is something about the availability of wide pine or other similar wood for secondary AND the thickness of the drawer sides. Philly and London sides are often not more than 3/8" I was looking at a drawer last week whose bottom edge was rabbeted to let in the bottom. The material remaining was tiny, maybe less than 1/10".
Additionally, the wide strips applied probably DID maintain the runners which would be especially helpful for flush fitting Georgian drawers. Those strips are often 1" or so, which is significant.
I don't see a lot of NE furniture (or Southern furniture for that matter). So this has been helpful.
Lastly, I've been seeing some "country" English furniture (we import a fair bit of that) where they used Oak as the primary material where Americans used Mahogany. This seemed to be limited to what the British call George III, and Wmsburg calls Southern Chippendale/Plain and Neat. Worth considering as the price of mahog climbs.
Adam
G
gvforster
Guest
Adam,
I'm more familiar with the plowed groove drawer bottom, but your discussion of "Philly" drawer constrution is quite intriguing. I always enjoy replicating regional methods. Could you direct me/us to some photos/info, something fairly simple, ie- one drawer stand, as I would like to build one.
I'm more familiar with the plowed groove drawer bottom, but your discussion of "Philly" drawer constrution is quite intriguing. I always enjoy replicating regional methods. Could you direct me/us to some photos/info, something fairly simple, ie- one drawer stand, as I would like to build one.
Jack Plane
Well-known member
Adam Cherubini said:
This is the type of drawer construction I would expect to see in English work after about 1725. I've even seen drawer sides as thin as 5/16" at this date, but 3/8" is the norm.
Prior to 1725 the drawer bottoms and runners were visible from the sides.
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